From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 2 21:22:48 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri Jun 2 21:22:56 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Igert related In-Reply-To: <447D31AB.80703@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <447D31AB.80703@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <44810E98.80307@umail.ucsb.edu> Greetings, I met with Tim today to discuss the TDG project again, to ask what would be needed to put it onto an igert track. First, let me say my first question was whether or not non-IGERT people could be involved in the IGERT project, to which the answer is there is no problem. Decision-making, ownership, and publications of the project are entirely up to us and faculty supporters and not at all effected by igert status. Rather than write a proposal just yet, his suggestion was that we start by meeting with the engineering-oriented MAT faculty to make sure they are on our side - and to express our goals and desires (ie. ownership, licensing). This would be Turk first, since he is the current MAT chair, is on the igert committee, and because I know him well and Tim and I believe he will be receptive to the project. After that, he felt it would be important to meet with Manjunath, since Manjunath makes many of the igert-related decisions. However, Turk knows Manjunath well, so meeting with Turk first will help move us in that direction. Steven Pope should also be brought into the discussion as well, perhaps in a separate meeting. So... The short story is, I would like to arrange a meeting with Turk - seperate from the upcoming MAT student meeting with him - and want to invite everyone in the TDG group to participate. Obviously the meeting will be most relevant to those interested in doing the project as an IGERT, but everyone is invited since it concerns the whole group. I will try for a Wed meeting. Let me know if there are other stronger preferences. Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 4 21:25:54 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Sun Jun 4 21:26:00 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Re: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <010401c685cb$574d3210$ed296f80@shaw> References: <010401c685cb$574d3210$ed296f80@shaw> Message-ID: <4483B252.5050609@umail.ucsb.edu> Greetings.. Several MAT students would like to meet with you to discuss a potential IGERT / MAT related project idea. Our group currently includes Graham Wakefield, Wes Smith, Lance Putnam, Jorge, Alex Norman, Eric Newman and myself. We would like to possibly meet with you separate from the student meeting this wednesday as our adenda is more specific, and not related to the entire MAT student body. A meeting this thursday or friday would be good, or next week. It could even happen after the wed student meeting if this is appropriate.. I have spoken with Tim regarding our interests, and we both felt that talking with you was the right next step in our process. Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 9 18:39:00 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri Jun 9 18:39:07 2006 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? Message-ID: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: - Monday, 4:30 pm - Thurs, 10 am - Fri, between 2-5pm. Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your preferences. -Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Sat Jun 10 10:31:21 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Sat Jun 10 10:31:33 2006 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060610103121.oxoiht2p6sk4w0kc@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I would prefer Monday, but any of the others work... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: > > - Monday, 4:30 pm > - Thurs, 10 am > - Fri, between 2-5pm. > > Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your > preferences. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From alex at neisis.net Sat Jun 10 10:48:52 2006 From: alex at neisis.net (Alex Norman) Date: Sat Jun 10 10:48:59 2006 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> I prefer Thursday, could do Monday if no one else can do Thursday but I'd really rather not. -Alex On 0, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: > > - Monday, 4:30 pm > - Thurs, 10 am > - Fri, between 2-5pm. > > Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your > preferences. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Sat Jun 10 13:53:00 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Sat Jun 10 13:53:21 2006 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> Message-ID: Monday's best for me. On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Alex Norman wrote: > I prefer Thursday, could do Monday if no one else can do Thursday but I'd really > rather not. > > -Alex > > On 0, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: >> Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: >> >> - Monday, 4:30 pm >> - Thurs, 10 am >> - Fri, between 2-5pm. >> >> Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your >> preferences. >> >> -Rama >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 12 23:11:44 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Mon Jun 12 23:11:43 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Turk meeting Friday Message-ID: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> Ok. We're set... The meeting with Turk is scheduled: TDG Meeting Friday, 2pm in MAT K I imagine everyone will be busy preparing for the thursday presentations so I suggest we skip the TDG meeting this wednesday. However, if anyone is interested we could meet a little early on friday, say 1:30pm just so we are clear on our goals in meeting with Turk. Regards, Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 13 10:24:43 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Tue Jun 13 10:24:55 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Turk meeting Friday In-Reply-To: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060613102443.cyun6w3z4gsw48gw@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Sure, I can meet @ 1:30... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Ok. We're set... The meeting with Turk is scheduled: > > TDG Meeting > Friday, 2pm > in MAT K > > I imagine everyone will be busy preparing for the thursday > presentations so I suggest we skip the TDG meeting this wednesday. > However, if anyone is interested we could meet a little early on > friday, say 1:30pm just so we are clear on our goals in meeting with > Turk. > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 11:33:27 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:35:11 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Re: About your project In-Reply-To: <1150824597.16372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150824597.16372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44983F77.10105@umail.ucsb.edu> >I might have the opportunity to push an NSF grant around this idea of >multimedia system frameworks. It is still up in the air but I would like to have your input. Let me know if you are around to talk it over. > > I think it would probably be more appropriate to discuss the framework with the TDG group, as I am only a representative and do not wish to determine the path of the project without the support of the team. Perhaps we can invite you to one of our meetings. >Also, I am attaching a draft article that I am writing for the ACM >Multimedia Transactions. I would like to have your point of view as an expert in graphics. I have just had a student back in Spain use the metamodel for image processing but would love to hear what you think. > I'd be happy to take a look at it. Let me get back to you on it (I'm doing grading this week) Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 11:47:07 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:48:51 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier Message-ID: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case to Manjunath to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a significant project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is better treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and to develop Allosphere content. Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some point in the future. While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this be the topic of our next meeting. Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? Regards, Rama From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 18:45:16 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Tue Jun 20 18:45:08 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: I think we should definitely meet with Xavier, sooner rather than later. But obviously he's a really nice guy, so I don't think we need to be too worried about a "polarity". He will want to work something out that is favorable to everyone. I don't think we necessarily need to meet before that. Things are getting interesting! I'm excited. Eric On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. > > Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our > group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that Turk > feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of eight+ MAT > grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case to Manjunath > to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a significant > project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is > better treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and to > develop Allosphere content. > > Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to discuss > anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I suggest we invite > him to talk to the group together at some point in the future. > > While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint > before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the > Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this be > the topic of our next meeting. > > Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > From alex at neisis.net Tue Jun 20 18:55:43 2006 From: alex at neisis.net (Alex Norman) Date: Tue Jun 20 18:55:51 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621015543.GC24084@silverninja.net> I am gone until the 1st of July.. I can meet after that. -Alex On 0, Eric Newman wrote: > > I think we should definitely meet with Xavier, sooner rather than later. > But obviously he's a really nice guy, so I don't think we need to be too > worried about a "polarity". He will want to work something out that is > favorable to everyone. > > I don't think we necessarily need to meet before that. > > Things are getting interesting! I'm excited. > > Eric > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > > >Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. > > > >Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our > >group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that > >Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of > >eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case > >to Manjunath to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a > >significant project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the > >"Allosphere IGERT" is better treated as another group that will use TDG as > >a test platform and to develop Allosphere content. > > > >Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to > >discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I > >suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some point in the > >future. > > > >While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint > >before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the > >Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this > >be the topic of our next meeting. > > > >Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? > > > >Regards, > >Rama > >_______________________________________________ > >Tdg mailing list > >Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > >http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 19:33:17 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Tue Jun 20 19:33:27 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> What are the Allosphere IGERT team's goals anyway? At some point you need a team dedicated to making the infrastructure for the content. This is what I see TDG as doing. Of course, some of the people working on TDG will be producing content, but I don't think it makes sense to marry the two. The content production should also not depend on unfinished tools. I will be out of town next week, but I can meet with Xavier this week if possible... Lance > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. >> >> Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I >> think our group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased >> to learn that Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would >> have the support of eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), >> and Tim to present our case to Manjunath to develop a technology >> infrastructure. This has become a significant project. Based on the >> discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is better >> treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and >> to develop Allosphere content. >> >> Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to >> discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, >> I suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some >> point in the future. >> >> While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our >> standpoint before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a >> polarity with the Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be >> comfortable with. I suggest this be the topic of our next meeting. >> >> Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? >> >> Regards, >> Rama >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg >> > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:18:58 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Wed Jun 21 00:20:43 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? Rama From jcastellanos at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:40:49 2006 From: jcastellanos at umail.ucsb.edu (Jorge Castellanos) Date: Wed Jun 21 00:41:04 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <2F4306F3-B3B9-4ECD-8DA0-80BC5E90A005@umail.ucsb.edu> any day is good for me! On Jun 21, 2006, at 12:18 AM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? Rama _______________________________________________ Tdg mailing list Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:53:28 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Wed Jun 21 00:55:12 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> I just wanted you to know my meeting with Xavier was not like the meeting with George and Turk. The latter were much more hands off as they wanted little direct input or control of the project. Xavier's own goals are much closer to ours, but also perhaps different in many ways. My only suggestion is that we tell him we'll get back to him on any direct requests he makes so that we can decide them as a group. He may ask to be the faculty lead on the TDG/Mint IGERT, for example. He may ask to have significant input on the design patterns of TDG/Mint - something he asked me directly, to which I replied all input on design was subject to our collaborative, group process of open discussion. He may directly ask us to collapse the TDG/Mint IGERT into the Allosphere IGERT for the sake of his goals. Which of these do we want or not want, for example? What can we as a group offer him? Lets be open.. but also patient/cautious. Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 10:54:37 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Wed Jun 21 10:54:48 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Fine with me, any time is good... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? > > Rama > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 11:03:43 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Wed Jun 21 11:03:54 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621110343.khnfz38f408owscw@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I think I need to hear reasons why this group should be collapsed into an Allosphere working group. My thought was that the Allosphere group is focused on production, while TDG/Mint is focused on development. If everything gets crammed into one group things might get unwieldy and people's roles might get obscured. Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > > I just wanted you to know my meeting with Xavier was not like the > meeting with George and Turk. The latter were much more hands off as > they wanted little direct input or control of the project. Xavier's own > goals are much closer to ours, but also perhaps different in many ways. > > My only suggestion is that we tell him we'll get back to him on any > direct requests he makes so that we can decide them as a group. He may > ask to be the faculty lead on the TDG/Mint IGERT, for example. He may > ask to have significant input on the design patterns of TDG/Mint - > something he asked me directly, to which I replied all input on design > was subject to our collaborative, group process of open discussion. He > may directly ask us to collapse the TDG/Mint IGERT into the Allosphere > IGERT for the sake of his goals. Which of these do we want or not want, > for example? What can we as a group offer him? > > Lets be open.. but also patient/cautious. > > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 22 10:07:12 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Thu Jun 22 10:07:01 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: I won't be back til next week but feel free to meet with him and just send an email to the list about how it went. On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Lance J. Putnam wrote: > Fine with me, any time is good... > Lance > > Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? >> >> Rama >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > > > -- > Lance Putnam > Graduate Student > Media Arts and Technology / UCSB > ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 22 22:55:15 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Thu Jun 22 22:55:26 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri Message-ID: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> Hi all, I've arranged a meeting with Xavier at 2pm tomorrow (Friday) for any who can make it. He made it clear one topic would be the pursuit of possible NSF grant funding in relation to this project. I don't know anything more than that.. Please come if you can, and let me know by e-mail if you can make it tomorrow (i don't want to be the only one there). Regards, Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 09:34:27 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Fri Jun 23 09:34:37 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I can be there. 4th floor? Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Hi all, > > I've arranged a meeting with Xavier at 2pm tomorrow (Friday) for any > who can make it. He made it clear one topic would be the pursuit of > possible NSF grant funding in relation to this project. I don't know > anything more than that.. Please come if you can, and let me know by > e-mail if you can make it tomorrow (i don't want to be the only one > there). > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri Jun 23 11:07:53 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> Ok, lets make it 4th floor at 2pm. -Rama From wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 23:00:11 2006 From: wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu (wakefield@mat.ucsb.edu) Date: Fri Jun 23 23:00:29 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry for not being there, nor replying to the list, but I've been out of internet & cellphone ranges (in death valley & yosemite) for the last week. Sounds very exciting so far - great news about potential funding sources, and ACMism in general. On the more complex notes, I concur with Lance's comments about keeping sphere content work separate from sphere system development. Certainly at least, we're looking at getting a first demo for the sphere itself up by August, while Mint I imagine has a year to fledge and blossom. Unfinished tools should stay in the lab for now, where they can grow freely as they should. I'm glad we can get input from a very experienced and nice guy like Xavier, and I'm also glad that we can keep our discussion-guided design philosophy going. How did the meeting go? I hope it was positive. See you at the parade?? G On Jun 23, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Ok, lets make it 4th floor at 2pm. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 25 11:06:51 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Sun Jun 25 11:07:01 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier Message-ID: <20060625110651.2jkjfxvrk8ok0coc@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Hello TDGer's, Here is a report of the meeting Rama and I had with Xavier involving applying for a grant for our current TDG group. Xavier proposed the idea of applying for an NSF CRI grant for developing a multimedia software framework that can be used (not necessarily exclusively) to drive the Allosphere. Xavier mentioned that possible PIs for the grant would be Tobias Hollerer and himself. Xavier envisioned the grant supporting 3-4 students for 2 years. It has not been decided when the grant would be applied for nor whom will help write it. Xavier noted that 6 months of processing time for the application is likely (not including writing the proposal). Here are some issues/questions Rama and I have come up with: - NSF grant with Xavier could provide direct funding to non-IGERTs if it is accepted. - IGERT people cannot recieve additional moneys outside their IGERT projects (found this out from Tim). This includes RAships, stipends from other departments, and academic grants. It even extends to a strong encouragement not to pursue volunteer work outside of your igert project. - Software platform can be developed by both non-IGERT and IGERT. - Will the goals of the TDG group as it is be changed if part of the group is working under an NSF grant and if so, how? At present, they are understood to be aimed at something that can serve many different goals (allosphere, faculty projects, our research, etc.). - Who will have say as to how the framework is designed? Currently, these issues are discussed as a group until there is a majority in agreement. Under a grant, it is possible that more design decisions will be made by the PIs in the interest of time. - Who will have authorship of the project? This has not even been discussed amongst the current group, although I think it is understood that everyone has equal authorship of the whole but not necessarily the parts (i.e. Mercury, GLV, etc.). At this point, we welcome others to comment... Lance and Rama -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam@umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 25 12:45:18 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Sun Jun 25 12:45:27 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier Message-ID: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by the Allosphere steering committee. Rama & Lance From wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 12:17:07 2006 From: wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu (wakefield@mat.ucsb.edu) Date: Mon Jun 26 12:42:40 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Hi, So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint would be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and an IGERT group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group is more AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, the NSF students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT students run for 1 year under professors Turk & co? And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the short term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds important, and I want to understand where we are up to! Thanks, G On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with > Xavier / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: > > - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would > be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. > > - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by > the Allosphere steering committee. > > Rama & Lance > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 13:23:06 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Mon Jun 26 13:23:13 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> In general, yes.. One important difference between the two groups is that Turk & co oversee several different IGERTs, while the NSF group would co-author/work with Xavier directly. In other words, the level of faculty involvement is likely to be less on the IGERT side.. However, with both faculty groups, Turk & Xavier, the degree of faculty involvement desired is still not yet known (and will probably not be known until we actual work with them). The degree of "joint" collaboration will depend greatly on Xavier's perspective relative to the group. It is up to our group working with Xavier to define what is meant by "joint project" in this context. If the goals are acknowledged to be the same, and the collaborative process with Xavier works well, the only difference might be funding source. If, however, the goals and workflow with Xavier are not as compatible the differences could create problems. At the very least, the issues of identity, goals, and design process of the entire group should be considered, as mentioned in the previous e-mail. Final point of fact.. It is unlikely (but still possible of course) that the NSF grant with Xavier would go through without some co-authorship with graduate students, as Xavier would have no one to work with under the grant. This does not mean a similar grant at a future time could not be pursued. Personal note: My own view is in favor of pursuing Mint as an igert project for one year, with other grant funding on hold until 1 yr later. While I openly admitted my bias as an Igert student, there are other reasons this would benefit the group. a) It would allow the project to gain strength as a single/unified group for 1 yr. b) It would allow us to test Xavier's goals and ability to work with us over that year, c) It would provide a core, after 1 yr, for Mint that could be used to jump-start several future grant opportunities. In other words, working as sub-groups in different areas of research will be much easier after the core is created. That said, there are reasons to pursue an NSF grant now as well. Rama wakefield@mat.ucsb.edu wrote: > Hi, > > So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint > would be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and > an IGERT group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group > is more AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, > the NSF students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT > students run for 1 year under professors Turk & co? > > And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to > create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the > short term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? > > Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds > important, and I want to understand where we are up to! > > Thanks, > > G > > > On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier >> / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: >> >> - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would >> be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. >> >> - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by >> the Allosphere steering committee. >> >> Rama & Lance >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 14:02:15 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Mon Jun 26 14:02:03 2006 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Since I do not have IGERT funding, I would certainly jump at the opportunity to have an NSF grant, and the sooner the better. Of course, since I haven't talked to Xavier or anyone else about it, I don't even know if I'd be eligible, or if it would happen this year as opposed to next, or at all. What I do know is that writing software for the AlloSphere, and creating content for it, are two of the main things I want to do here in MAT. And I need to get paid somehow to be here. The whole TAing situation is unfortunately quite disorganized and unreliable, so I'm definitely looking for a more stable source of income. Thus, if the NSF grant is a possibility for later this year, I would definitely NOT be in favor of delaying anything just for the sake of TDG/Mint. Also, I think that the sooner we can get faculty officially onto TDG/Mint, the better - not only will Tobias & Xavier's personal knowledge be incredibly helpful, but their involvement will open lots more doors in terms of publishing and future funding. Summary opinion: don't put non-IGERT grant funding on hold. On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > In general, yes.. One important difference between the two groups is that > Turk & co oversee several different IGERTs, while the NSF group would > co-author/work with Xavier directly. In other words, the level of faculty > involvement is likely to be less on the IGERT side.. However, with both > faculty groups, Turk & Xavier, the degree of faculty involvement desired is > still not yet known (and will probably not be known until we actual work with > them). > > The degree of "joint" collaboration will depend greatly on Xavier's > perspective relative to the group. It is up to our group working with Xavier > to define what is meant by "joint project" in this context. If the goals are > acknowledged to be the same, and the collaborative process with Xavier works > well, the only difference might be funding source. If, however, the goals and > workflow with Xavier are not as compatible the differences could create > problems. At the very least, the issues of identity, goals, and design > process of the entire group should be considered, as mentioned in the > previous e-mail. > > Final point of fact.. It is unlikely (but still possible of course) that the > NSF grant with Xavier would go through without some co-authorship with > graduate students, as Xavier would have no one to work with under the grant. > This does not mean a similar grant at a future time could not be pursued. > > Personal note: My own view is in favor of pursuing Mint as an igert project > for one year, with other grant funding on hold until 1 yr later. While I > openly admitted my bias as an Igert student, there are other reasons this > would benefit the group. a) It would allow the project to gain strength as a > single/unified group for 1 yr. b) It would allow us to test Xavier's goals > and ability to work with us over that year, c) It would provide a core, after > 1 yr, for Mint that could be used to jump-start several future grant > opportunities. In other words, working as sub-groups in different areas of > research will be much easier after the core is created. That said, there are > reasons to pursue an NSF grant now as well. > > Rama > > > wakefield@mat.ucsb.edu wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint would >> be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and an IGERT >> group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group is more >> AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, the NSF >> students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT students run >> for 1 year under professors Turk & co? >> >> And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to >> create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the short >> term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? >> >> Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds important, >> and I want to understand where we are up to! >> >> Thanks, >> >> G >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: >> >>> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier / >>> Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: >>> >>> - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would be the >>> one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. >>> >>> - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by the >>> Allosphere steering committee. >>> >>> Rama & Lance >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tdg mailing list >>> Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu >>> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg@mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 2 21:22:48 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 21:22:48 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Igert related In-Reply-To: <447D31AB.80703@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <447D31AB.80703@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <44810E98.80307@umail.ucsb.edu> Greetings, I met with Tim today to discuss the TDG project again, to ask what would be needed to put it onto an igert track. First, let me say my first question was whether or not non-IGERT people could be involved in the IGERT project, to which the answer is there is no problem. Decision-making, ownership, and publications of the project are entirely up to us and faculty supporters and not at all effected by igert status. Rather than write a proposal just yet, his suggestion was that we start by meeting with the engineering-oriented MAT faculty to make sure they are on our side - and to express our goals and desires (ie. ownership, licensing). This would be Turk first, since he is the current MAT chair, is on the igert committee, and because I know him well and Tim and I believe he will be receptive to the project. After that, he felt it would be important to meet with Manjunath, since Manjunath makes many of the igert-related decisions. However, Turk knows Manjunath well, so meeting with Turk first will help move us in that direction. Steven Pope should also be brought into the discussion as well, perhaps in a separate meeting. So... The short story is, I would like to arrange a meeting with Turk - seperate from the upcoming MAT student meeting with him - and want to invite everyone in the TDG group to participate. Obviously the meeting will be most relevant to those interested in doing the project as an IGERT, but everyone is invited since it concerns the whole group. I will try for a Wed meeting. Let me know if there are other stronger preferences. Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 4 21:25:54 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2006 21:25:54 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Re: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <010401c685cb$574d3210$ed296f80@shaw> References: <010401c685cb$574d3210$ed296f80@shaw> Message-ID: <4483B252.5050609@umail.ucsb.edu> Greetings.. Several MAT students would like to meet with you to discuss a potential IGERT / MAT related project idea. Our group currently includes Graham Wakefield, Wes Smith, Lance Putnam, Jorge, Alex Norman, Eric Newman and myself. We would like to possibly meet with you separate from the student meeting this wednesday as our adenda is more specific, and not related to the entire MAT student body. A meeting this thursday or friday would be good, or next week. It could even happen after the wed student meeting if this is appropriate.. I have spoken with Tim regarding our interests, and we both felt that talking with you was the right next step in our process. Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 9 18:39:00 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2006 18:39:00 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? Message-ID: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: - Monday, 4:30 pm - Thurs, 10 am - Fri, between 2-5pm. Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your preferences. -Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Sat Jun 10 10:31:21 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:31:21 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060610103121.oxoiht2p6sk4w0kc@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I would prefer Monday, but any of the others work... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: > > - Monday, 4:30 pm > - Thurs, 10 am > - Fri, between 2-5pm. > > Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your > preferences. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From alex at neisis.net Sat Jun 10 10:48:52 2006 From: alex at neisis.net (Alex Norman) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 10:48:52 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> I prefer Thursday, could do Monday if no one else can do Thursday but I'd really rather not. -Alex On 0, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: > > - Monday, 4:30 pm > - Thurs, 10 am > - Fri, between 2-5pm. > > Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your > preferences. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Sat Jun 10 13:53:00 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 13:53:00 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Tdg] RE: IGERT/MAT Project meeting? In-Reply-To: <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> References: <448A22B4.3050607@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060610174852.GT1677@silverninja.net> Message-ID: Monday's best for me. On Sat, 10 Jun 2006, Alex Norman wrote: > I prefer Thursday, could do Monday if no one else can do Thursday but I'd really > rather not. > > -Alex > > On 0, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: >> Here are times Turk could meet about TDG/Mint: >> >> - Monday, 4:30 pm >> - Thurs, 10 am >> - Fri, between 2-5pm. >> >> Lets pick the slot that works best for all of us. Let me know your >> preferences. >> >> -Rama >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 12 23:11:44 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 23:11:44 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Turk meeting Friday Message-ID: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> Ok. We're set... The meeting with Turk is scheduled: TDG Meeting Friday, 2pm in MAT K I imagine everyone will be busy preparing for the thursday presentations so I suggest we skip the TDG meeting this wednesday. However, if anyone is interested we could meet a little early on friday, say 1:30pm just so we are clear on our goals in meeting with Turk. Regards, Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 13 10:24:43 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 10:24:43 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Turk meeting Friday In-Reply-To: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <448E5720.50007@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060613102443.cyun6w3z4gsw48gw@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Sure, I can meet @ 1:30... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Ok. We're set... The meeting with Turk is scheduled: > > TDG Meeting > Friday, 2pm > in MAT K > > I imagine everyone will be busy preparing for the thursday > presentations so I suggest we skip the TDG meeting this wednesday. > However, if anyone is interested we could meet a little early on > friday, say 1:30pm just so we are clear on our goals in meeting with > Turk. > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 11:33:27 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:33:27 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Re: About your project In-Reply-To: <1150824597.16372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1150824597.16372.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44983F77.10105@umail.ucsb.edu> >I might have the opportunity to push an NSF grant around this idea of >multimedia system frameworks. It is still up in the air but I would like to have your input. Let me know if you are around to talk it over. > > I think it would probably be more appropriate to discuss the framework with the TDG group, as I am only a representative and do not wish to determine the path of the project without the support of the team. Perhaps we can invite you to one of our meetings. >Also, I am attaching a draft article that I am writing for the ACM >Multimedia Transactions. I would like to have your point of view as an expert in graphics. I have just had a student back in Spain use the metamodel for image processing but would love to hear what you think. > I'd be happy to take a look at it. Let me get back to you on it (I'm doing grading this week) Regards, Rama From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 11:47:07 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 11:47:07 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier Message-ID: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case to Manjunath to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a significant project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is better treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and to develop Allosphere content. Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some point in the future. While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this be the topic of our next meeting. Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? Regards, Rama From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 18:45:16 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:45:16 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: I think we should definitely meet with Xavier, sooner rather than later. But obviously he's a really nice guy, so I don't think we need to be too worried about a "polarity". He will want to work something out that is favorable to everyone. I don't think we necessarily need to meet before that. Things are getting interesting! I'm excited. Eric On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. > > Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our > group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that Turk > feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of eight+ MAT > grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case to Manjunath > to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a significant > project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is > better treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and to > develop Allosphere content. > > Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to discuss > anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I suggest we invite > him to talk to the group together at some point in the future. > > While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint > before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the > Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this be > the topic of our next meeting. > > Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > From alex at neisis.net Tue Jun 20 18:55:43 2006 From: alex at neisis.net (Alex Norman) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 18:55:43 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621015543.GC24084@silverninja.net> I am gone until the 1st of July.. I can meet after that. -Alex On 0, Eric Newman wrote: > > I think we should definitely meet with Xavier, sooner rather than later. > But obviously he's a really nice guy, so I don't think we need to be too > worried about a "polarity". He will want to work something out that is > favorable to everyone. > > I don't think we necessarily need to meet before that. > > Things are getting interesting! I'm excited. > > Eric > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > > >Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. > > > >Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I think our > >group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased to learn that > >Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would have the support of > >eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), and Tim to present our case > >to Manjunath to develop a technology infrastructure. This has become a > >significant project. Based on the discussion with Turk, I think the > >"Allosphere IGERT" is better treated as another group that will use TDG as > >a test platform and to develop Allosphere content. > > > >Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to > >discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, I > >suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some point in the > >future. > > > >While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our standpoint > >before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a polarity with the > >Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be comfortable with. I suggest this > >be the topic of our next meeting. > > > >Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? > > > >Regards, > >Rama > >_______________________________________________ > >Tdg mailing list > >Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > >http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Tue Jun 20 19:33:17 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 19:33:17 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> What are the Allosphere IGERT team's goals anyway? At some point you need a team dedicated to making the infrastructure for the content. This is what I see TDG as doing. Of course, some of the people working on TDG will be producing content, but I don't think it makes sense to marry the two. The content production should also not depend on unfinished tools. I will be out of town next week, but I can meet with Xavier this week if possible... Lance > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> Xavier has obviously taken an interest in our project. >> >> Just to let my own opinions be known, after meeting with Turk I >> think our group is strongest in forming its own IGERT. I am pleased >> to learn that Turk feels this could stand on its own. We would >> have the support of eight+ MAT grads, two faculty (Turk & George), >> and Tim to present our case to Manjunath to develop a technology >> infrastructure. This has become a significant project. Based on the >> discussion with Turk, I think the "Allosphere IGERT" is better >> treated as another group that will use TDG as a test platform and >> to develop Allosphere content. >> >> Of course, Xavier may not agree with this view. As I do not wish to >> discuss anything further with him that impacts the whole project, >> I suggest we invite him to talk to the group together at some >> point in the future. >> >> While my opinion is above, we should be fairly certain of our >> standpoint before we meet. By doing our own TDG igert we create a >> polarity with the Allosphere IGERT which Xavier may not be >> comfortable with. I suggest this be the topic of our next meeting. >> >> Is anyone around still? Should we hold a TDG meeting to discuss this more? >> >> Regards, >> Rama >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg >> > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:18:58 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:18:58 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? Rama From jcastellanos at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:40:49 2006 From: jcastellanos at umail.ucsb.edu (Jorge Castellanos) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:40:49 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <2F4306F3-B3B9-4ECD-8DA0-80BC5E90A005@umail.ucsb.edu> any day is good for me! On Jun 21, 2006, at 12:18 AM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? Rama _______________________________________________ Tdg mailing list Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 00:53:28 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 00:53:28 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> I just wanted you to know my meeting with Xavier was not like the meeting with George and Turk. The latter were much more hands off as they wanted little direct input or control of the project. Xavier's own goals are much closer to ours, but also perhaps different in many ways. My only suggestion is that we tell him we'll get back to him on any direct requests he makes so that we can decide them as a group. He may ask to be the faculty lead on the TDG/Mint IGERT, for example. He may ask to have significant input on the design patterns of TDG/Mint - something he asked me directly, to which I replied all input on design was subject to our collaborative, group process of open discussion. He may directly ask us to collapse the TDG/Mint IGERT into the Allosphere IGERT for the sake of his goals. Which of these do we want or not want, for example? What can we as a group offer him? Lets be open.. but also patient/cautious. Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 10:54:37 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:54:37 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Fine with me, any time is good... Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? > > Rama > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Wed Jun 21 11:03:43 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:03:43 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <4498FAF8.9000206@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060621110343.khnfz38f408owscw@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I think I need to hear reasons why this group should be collapsed into an Allosphere working group. My thought was that the Allosphere group is focused on production, while TDG/Mint is focused on development. If everything gets crammed into one group things might get unwieldy and people's roles might get obscured. Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > > I just wanted you to know my meeting with Xavier was not like the > meeting with George and Turk. The latter were much more hands off as > they wanted little direct input or control of the project. Xavier's own > goals are much closer to ours, but also perhaps different in many ways. > > My only suggestion is that we tell him we'll get back to him on any > direct requests he makes so that we can decide them as a group. He may > ask to be the faculty lead on the TDG/Mint IGERT, for example. He may > ask to have significant input on the design patterns of TDG/Mint - > something he asked me directly, to which I replied all input on design > was subject to our collaborative, group process of open discussion. He > may directly ask us to collapse the TDG/Mint IGERT into the Allosphere > IGERT for the sake of his goals. Which of these do we want or not want, > for example? What can we as a group offer him? > > Lets be open.. but also patient/cautious. > > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 22 10:07:12 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:07:12 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Tdg] Xavier In-Reply-To: <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449842AB.6060301@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060620193317.f3r44mlrko80k84g@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <4498F2E2.40901@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060621105437.z1nm7w0l0kw8g0co@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: I won't be back til next week but feel free to meet with him and just send an email to the list about how it went. On Wed, 21 Jun 2006, Lance J. Putnam wrote: > Fine with me, any time is good... > Lance > > Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> What do people think of a Friday meeting with Xavier? >> >> Rama >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > > > -- > Lance Putnam > Graduate Student > Media Arts and Technology / UCSB > ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Thu Jun 22 22:55:15 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:55:15 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri Message-ID: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> Hi all, I've arranged a meeting with Xavier at 2pm tomorrow (Friday) for any who can make it. He made it clear one topic would be the pursuit of possible NSF grant funding in relation to this project. I don't know anything more than that.. Please come if you can, and let me know by e-mail if you can make it tomorrow (i don't want to be the only one there). Regards, Rama From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 09:34:27 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 09:34:27 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> I can be there. 4th floor? Lance Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Hi all, > > I've arranged a meeting with Xavier at 2pm tomorrow (Friday) for any > who can make it. He made it clear one topic would be the pursuit of > possible NSF grant funding in relation to this project. I don't know > anything more than that.. Please come if you can, and let me know by > e-mail if you can make it tomorrow (i don't want to be the only one > there). > > Regards, > Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 11:07:43 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:07:43 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> Ok, lets make it 4th floor at 2pm. -Rama From wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu Fri Jun 23 23:00:11 2006 From: wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu (wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:00:11 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Xavier meeting Fri In-Reply-To: <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449B8243.4040208@umail.ucsb.edu> <20060623093427.36c47dku80g888ks@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> <449C2DEF.5040106@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Hi all, Sorry for not being there, nor replying to the list, but I've been out of internet & cellphone ranges (in death valley & yosemite) for the last week. Sounds very exciting so far - great news about potential funding sources, and ACMism in general. On the more complex notes, I concur with Lance's comments about keeping sphere content work separate from sphere system development. Certainly at least, we're looking at getting a first demo for the sphere itself up by August, while Mint I imagine has a year to fledge and blossom. Unfinished tools should stay in the lab for now, where they can grow freely as they should. I'm glad we can get input from a very experienced and nice guy like Xavier, and I'm also glad that we can keep our discussion-guided design philosophy going. How did the meeting go? I hope it was positive. See you at the parade?? G On Jun 23, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > Ok, lets make it 4th floor at 2pm. > > -Rama > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 25 11:06:51 2006 From: ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu (Lance J. Putnam) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:06:51 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier Message-ID: <20060625110651.2jkjfxvrk8ok0coc@webaccess.umail.ucsb.edu> Hello TDGer's, Here is a report of the meeting Rama and I had with Xavier involving applying for a grant for our current TDG group. Xavier proposed the idea of applying for an NSF CRI grant for developing a multimedia software framework that can be used (not necessarily exclusively) to drive the Allosphere. Xavier mentioned that possible PIs for the grant would be Tobias Hollerer and himself. Xavier envisioned the grant supporting 3-4 students for 2 years. It has not been decided when the grant would be applied for nor whom will help write it. Xavier noted that 6 months of processing time for the application is likely (not including writing the proposal). Here are some issues/questions Rama and I have come up with: - NSF grant with Xavier could provide direct funding to non-IGERTs if it is accepted. - IGERT people cannot recieve additional moneys outside their IGERT projects (found this out from Tim). This includes RAships, stipends from other departments, and academic grants. It even extends to a strong encouragement not to pursue volunteer work outside of your igert project. - Software platform can be developed by both non-IGERT and IGERT. - Will the goals of the TDG group as it is be changed if part of the group is working under an NSF grant and if so, how? At present, they are understood to be aimed at something that can serve many different goals (allosphere, faculty projects, our research, etc.). - Who will have say as to how the framework is designed? Currently, these issues are discussed as a group until there is a majority in agreement. Under a grant, it is possible that more design decisions will be made by the PIs in the interest of time. - Who will have authorship of the project? This has not even been discussed amongst the current group, although I think it is understood that everyone has equal authorship of the whole but not necessarily the parts (i.e. Mercury, GLV, etc.). At this point, we welcome others to comment... Lance and Rama -- Lance Putnam Graduate Student Media Arts and Technology / UCSB ljputnam at umail.ucsb.edu From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Sun Jun 25 12:45:18 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier Message-ID: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by the Allosphere steering committee. Rama & Lance From wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 12:17:07 2006 From: wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu (wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:17:07 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Hi, So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint would be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and an IGERT group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group is more AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, the NSF students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT students run for 1 year under professors Turk & co? And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the short term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds important, and I want to understand where we are up to! Thanks, G On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with > Xavier / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: > > - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would > be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. > > - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by > the Allosphere steering committee. > > Rama & Lance > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg From rch at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 13:23:06 2006 From: rch at umail.ucsb.edu (Rama Hoetzlein) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 13:23:06 -0700 Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> In general, yes.. One important difference between the two groups is that Turk & co oversee several different IGERTs, while the NSF group would co-author/work with Xavier directly. In other words, the level of faculty involvement is likely to be less on the IGERT side.. However, with both faculty groups, Turk & Xavier, the degree of faculty involvement desired is still not yet known (and will probably not be known until we actual work with them). The degree of "joint" collaboration will depend greatly on Xavier's perspective relative to the group. It is up to our group working with Xavier to define what is meant by "joint project" in this context. If the goals are acknowledged to be the same, and the collaborative process with Xavier works well, the only difference might be funding source. If, however, the goals and workflow with Xavier are not as compatible the differences could create problems. At the very least, the issues of identity, goals, and design process of the entire group should be considered, as mentioned in the previous e-mail. Final point of fact.. It is unlikely (but still possible of course) that the NSF grant with Xavier would go through without some co-authorship with graduate students, as Xavier would have no one to work with under the grant. This does not mean a similar grant at a future time could not be pursued. Personal note: My own view is in favor of pursuing Mint as an igert project for one year, with other grant funding on hold until 1 yr later. While I openly admitted my bias as an Igert student, there are other reasons this would benefit the group. a) It would allow the project to gain strength as a single/unified group for 1 yr. b) It would allow us to test Xavier's goals and ability to work with us over that year, c) It would provide a core, after 1 yr, for Mint that could be used to jump-start several future grant opportunities. In other words, working as sub-groups in different areas of research will be much easier after the core is created. That said, there are reasons to pursue an NSF grant now as well. Rama wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu wrote: > Hi, > > So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint > would be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and > an IGERT group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group > is more AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, > the NSF students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT > students run for 1 year under professors Turk & co? > > And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to > create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the > short term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? > > Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds > important, and I want to understand where we are up to! > > Thanks, > > G > > > On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > >> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier >> / Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: >> >> - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would >> be the one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. >> >> - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by >> the Allosphere steering committee. >> >> Rama & Lance >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tdg mailing list >> Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu >> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg > > From ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu Mon Jun 26 14:02:15 2006 From: ericnewman at umail.ucsb.edu (Eric Newman) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:02:15 -0700 (Pacific Standard Time) Subject: [Tdg] Meeting w/ Xavier In-Reply-To: <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> References: <449EE7CE.80203@umail.ucsb.edu> <44A0422A.1080601@umail.ucsb.edu> Message-ID: Since I do not have IGERT funding, I would certainly jump at the opportunity to have an NSF grant, and the sooner the better. Of course, since I haven't talked to Xavier or anyone else about it, I don't even know if I'd be eligible, or if it would happen this year as opposed to next, or at all. What I do know is that writing software for the AlloSphere, and creating content for it, are two of the main things I want to do here in MAT. And I need to get paid somehow to be here. The whole TAing situation is unfortunately quite disorganized and unreliable, so I'm definitely looking for a more stable source of income. Thus, if the NSF grant is a possibility for later this year, I would definitely NOT be in favor of delaying anything just for the sake of TDG/Mint. Also, I think that the sooner we can get faculty officially onto TDG/Mint, the better - not only will Tobias & Xavier's personal knowledge be incredibly helpful, but their involvement will open lots more doors in terms of publishing and future funding. Summary opinion: don't put non-IGERT grant funding on hold. On Mon, 26 Jun 2006, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: > In general, yes.. One important difference between the two groups is that > Turk & co oversee several different IGERTs, while the NSF group would > co-author/work with Xavier directly. In other words, the level of faculty > involvement is likely to be less on the IGERT side.. However, with both > faculty groups, Turk & Xavier, the degree of faculty involvement desired is > still not yet known (and will probably not be known until we actual work with > them). > > The degree of "joint" collaboration will depend greatly on Xavier's > perspective relative to the group. It is up to our group working with Xavier > to define what is meant by "joint project" in this context. If the goals are > acknowledged to be the same, and the collaborative process with Xavier works > well, the only difference might be funding source. If, however, the goals and > workflow with Xavier are not as compatible the differences could create > problems. At the very least, the issues of identity, goals, and design > process of the entire group should be considered, as mentioned in the > previous e-mail. > > Final point of fact.. It is unlikely (but still possible of course) that the > NSF grant with Xavier would go through without some co-authorship with > graduate students, as Xavier would have no one to work with under the grant. > This does not mean a similar grant at a future time could not be pursued. > > Personal note: My own view is in favor of pursuing Mint as an igert project > for one year, with other grant funding on hold until 1 yr later. While I > openly admitted my bias as an Igert student, there are other reasons this > would benefit the group. a) It would allow the project to gain strength as a > single/unified group for 1 yr. b) It would allow us to test Xavier's goals > and ability to work with us over that year, c) It would provide a core, after > 1 yr, for Mint that could be used to jump-start several future grant > opportunities. In other words, working as sub-groups in different areas of > research will be much easier after the core is created. That said, there are > reasons to pursue an NSF grant now as well. > > Rama > > > wakefield at mat.ucsb.edu wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> So... just to make sure I get this clear, does this mean that Mint would >> be a joint project between an NSF-funded group of students and an IGERT >> group, working on the same project; in which the NSF group is more >> AlloSphere targetted, and the IGERT group is more generic, the NSF >> students run 2 years under Xavier and Tobias, and the IGERT students run >> for 1 year under professors Turk & co? >> >> And apart from this, there would be a separate AlloSphere project to >> create content for the sphere, independent of Mint entirely in the short >> term, but intended to run on Mint in the long term? >> >> Sorry, I'm confused - I know I've been away, but this sounds important, >> and I want to understand where we are up to! >> >> Thanks, >> >> G >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2006, at 12:45 PM, Rama Hoetzlein wrote: >> >>> One additional item to help clarify, as the last meeting with Xavier / >>> Turk revolved around an Allosphere Igert: >>> >>> - The IGERT project for TDG mentioned in the previous e-mail would be the >>> one discussed with Turk and submitted to Manjunath by us. >>> >>> - Xavier said there will not be an Allosphere Igert as decided by the >>> Allosphere steering committee. >>> >>> Rama & Lance >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tdg mailing list >>> Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu >>> http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Tdg mailing list > Tdg at mat.ucsb.edu > http://zydeco.mat.ucsb.edu/mailman/listinfo/tdg >